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White Supremacy Riot/Rally
Topic Started: Aug 13 2017, 10:17 PM (1,990 Views)
+ Sandy Shore
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...
Edited by Sandy Shore, Nov 7 2017, 08:27 AM.
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Yes, @lazerbem, it is important to provide statistics when asked in a debate, even when you think that it should be obvious to your opponent.

"Right-wing terrorism is terrorism motivated by a variety of ideologies and beliefs, including anti-communism, neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, and a mindset against abortion. This type of terrorism has been sporadic, with little or no international cooperation."

"As of June 2015, right-wing attacks since the September 11 attacks (9/11) had claimed more lives (48) than attacks committed by jihadists (26). Thereafter, jihadist terrorist attacks (the 2015 San Bernardino attack and the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting) raised the Islamic extremist death toll above that caused by right-wing extremists. As of July 2016, the New America Foundation placed the number killed in terrorist attacks in the U.S. (since 9/11) as follows: 94 killed in jihadist terrorist attacks, 50 killed in far-right attacks, and 5 killed in far-left attacks.

New America's tally shows 21 instances of right-wing terrorist attacks causing 53 fatalities since September 11, 2001."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism


It is important to note that "alt-right terrorism" can include anything from bombing abortion clinics to murdering gay people in the streets. Since our discussion is focused on white supremacists, your statistics are skewed to begin with. At the end of the day, I'm not interested at all in playing the "who is worse" game with you. That's childish.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Aug 14 2017, 07:15 PM.
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Posting just to let you guys know this thread has been moved to Deep Discussion given its sensitive nature in case you look for the thread in Talk About Anything and don't find it.

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lazerbem
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Quote:
 
Yet Black Lives Matter appear to have rallied under this claim that racist cops kill black people for funsies. The fact is, a black person gets shot by a police officer and there's a thorough investigation scrutinising it in search of any foul-play to push along this narrative.

With little actual punishment if there was in fact foul play.
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This doesn't support the narrative that police are systematically racist against blacks when dealing with them or making arrests, and Black Lives Matter are shining a light on it.

But they are.
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“African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers"

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lthough Black people accounted for less than 15 percent of all stops in 2015, they accounted for over 42 percent of all non-consent searches following stops.” This proved unwarranted: “Of all people searched without consent, Black and Hispanic people had the lowest ‘hit rates’ (i.e., the lowest rate of contraband recovered).”

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Holding up traffic, rioting, looting, burning things including cop cars, and assaulting cops or worse (just look around on Youtube for news stories or footage of any of these things). They come across as thuggish and violent while they do discernible good.

Are you aware of the actual percentages here or are you spitballing? I've not seen anything to see an idea that it's an especially large amount.
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They fuel the tensions black people already have with the police with chants like "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon", and they reignite tensions between white and black people when they seek to exclude them from parties, or their members say something incredibly anti-white in protest or on twitter or what have you as they seem to do time and time again. Here's an example from a very prominent Black Lives Matter member, so you won't pester me for evidence or whatever. We all know it's out there and I can't be bothered to collate it all.

Very prominent=random cofounder of a single city that is unknown outside of it?
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White supremacists have been going around rioting, violently protesting and kidnapping people for being black and supposedly therefore voting for someone they hate more than the antifascists and Black Lives Matter people?

I mean they've been running people over in cars, stabbing people, and shooting them up. Also, very interesting that you qualify the kidnapping as a BLM thing when the teens had no association with it so far as I'm aware.
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Yes, we get it, you're talking historically. But, I thought you didn't play these "death-toll olympic" type games because you, quote: "just think it's a stupid way to classify things".

It's not death toll olympics when the only deaths to the name of BLM are from the shooting where the shooter wasn't even a BLM member and actually was angry with them for not being extreme enough. It's just death toll versus no death toll.
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No one's arguing the numbers. Just pointing out that you're condoning the actions and existence of one group that are currently behaving no worse than another, and neither have any moral right to exist.

I don't condone destructive actions within BLM. What I was pointing out was how inane it was to immediately go "BUT WHAT ABOUT BLM??!?!?!" in response to a white supremacist moment.

I do think BLM is more justified for aforementioned reasons.
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One appeals to your leftist sensibilities while the other doesn't. Keep playing favourites, everyone else can see what you're doing.

I hate communism, I'm not leftist. Don't just randomly assume that just because I don't think this extreme right is even vaguely comparable in the way you're suggesting.
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Guess that makes 9/11 legitimate, then!

When did I say it was? Just because Islamic terrorists are better at killing people than far right terrorists doesn't change the number of attacks.
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It is important to note that "alt-right terrorism" can include anything from bombing abortion clinics to murdering gay people in the streets. Since our discussion is focused on white supremacists, your statistics are skewed to begin with.

Forgive me for linking the two when they also seem dedicated in doing so. See the Christian Identity movement.

Anyway, to name some incidents, Mark Stroman shoots up three people, Richard Poplawski shoots up some cops, Shawna Forde, Albert Gaxiola, and Jason Bush shoot up a family while trying to rob their money for their nativist militia, James von Brunn shoots security guards at the Holocaust museum, David Joseph Pedersen and Holly Ann Grigsby go on a killing spree, Wade Michael Page shoots up a Sikh temple, Dylann Roof shoots up a church, James Harris Jackson stabs a black man to death, and Jeremy Christian stabs some men to death. Oh, and then the vehicular kill recently.

So yeah, there you go. There's more too if you link the sovereign citizens with white supremacy, as they are oft to do.
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At the end of the day, I'm not interested at all in playing the "who is worse" game with you. That's childish.

Your very first post in the thread is blaming BLM for a white supremacist riot and immediately going into a full-on "well, both sides have problems..." while ignoring the very context of the incident, where it just a white supremacist plowing into a crowd.

BLM blocks up roads, white supremacists run people down in their cars, stab them, and shoot them. Yeah, I can feel really safe saying the white supremacists are worse no matter how it's spun. I don't have to agree with BLM 100% to not just start comparing them to far bigger problems. BLM has problems, it's just that they're laughably inconsequential in the face of far right terrorism(which is inexorably tied itself to white supremacy. Hell, the slogan of the whole event was "unite the right")
Edited by lazerbem, Aug 18 2017, 05:23 AM.
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Quote:
 
Your very first post in the thread is blaming BLM for a white supremacist riot and immediately going into a full-on "well, both sides have problems..." while ignoring the very context of the incident, where it just a white supremacist plowing into a crowd.

No, my first post drew a comparison between the two in an attempt to rationalize Trump's "multiple sides" comment. I didn't start the numbers game.

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BLM blocks up roads, white supremacists run people down in their cars, stab them, and shoot them. Yeah, I can feel really safe saying the white supremacists are worse no matter how it's spun. I don't have to agree with BLM 100% to not just start comparing them to far bigger problems. BLM has problems, it's just that they're laughably inconsequential in the face of far right terrorism(which is inexorably tied itself to white supremacy. Hell, the slogan of the whole event was "unite the right")

On page 2, I said this: "The neo-nazi movement is based predominately on hatred and discrimination against minorities, while BLM was meant to gain more rights for a certain minority group. When you take them at face value, one could be considered morally good, while the other is very obviously morally wrong."

But I also said this: "Since then, though, both movements have become violent and cancerous. Equally so, it could be argued," and I think that's what really triggered this game. I have already admitted that I was wrong to jump the gun on that second sentence, so at this point we've just been arguing numbers.

Other than that, I've insisted throughout this thread that Neo-Nazism is technically worse since it's a movement rooted in actual hatred against minorities, while BLM is only bad when radicalized. Aside from radicals who shoot police officers, block major highways, and riot, BLM isn't a violent or dangerous movement; it's just an unfounded one. Unfortunately, the bad seeds do rub me the wrong way, similarly to the Neo-Nazi movement, but apparently drawing any sort of comparison is equating the two.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Aug 13 2017, 10:22 PM
Anyway, I think that stuff is stupid in general. It's a waste of time.
Thank you

So much protesting in this country nowadays it's so annoying. There's another rally and protest in Boston and I'm just waiting until it gets out of hand and get on the news. The extreme left wing and extreme right wing are both insane. Pointing fingers and saying "no this side is worse" isn't going to get us anywhere. It's just going to irritate people even more
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Aug 19 2017, 06:30 PM.
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ThisIsMyDebatingFace
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Why can't we all just get along and treat each other as humans? Why is that so hard...
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